[redthahat]

In the spirit of the whole Loudness War, thought that I would share a few screens of other examples of brickwalling, and others that havent, just to give people a further insight into what it is.


Arctic Monkeys - Brianstorm
http://i369.photobuc...sbrianstorm.jpg

Muse - Plug In Baby (not brickwalled)
http://i369.photobuc...epluginbaby.jpg

ACDC - Rock and Roll Train (Pretty prickwalled)
http://i369.photobuc...ndrolltrain.jpg


Slipknot - Germatria (brickwalled)
http://i369.photobuc...otgermatria.jpg


Trivium - Down From The Sky (brickwalled)
http://i369.photobuc...nfromthesky.jpg


Redthahat Remix of And Justice For All (loud, but not brickwalled)
http://i369.photobuc...atremixAJFA.jpg




If you have any other shots, feel free to share.
It is starting to seem that this forum is fast becoming the frontline of the Loudness War. Without going into the issues that Death Magnetic has, this can be a good place for us to discuss loudness in general. I'm going to take some more shots over the next few hours (all depending, I have a chest infection, and will pass out any minute), hoping to get some done for Meshuggah, Strapping Young Lad, Cannibal Corpse, and a few others like Radiohead, etc. Cheers

[Rhorschack]

You will find millions of examples.

It's been the standard since the mid 90'

The most serious cases are when you clearly hear the digital distortion.


Death Magnetic being the saddest example.

This post has been edited by Rhorschack: Oct 08 08 - 03:05 AM

[MatsP]

Rhorschack, on 10/08/08 12:03 pm, said:

You will find millions of examples.

It's been the standard since the mid 90'

The most serious cases are when you clearly hear the digital distortion.


Death Magnetic being the saddest example.

Brickwalling per se isn't harmful to speakers, but still very fatiguing to the ears. Clipping is the no-no here.

[Mastodude]

Didnt realise Gematria was like that. It sounds ok to me. The drums are clear as anything.

[MagneticDeath]

I just took a look at the whole new Slipknot album through Audacity, the whole album is pretty much brcikwalled. However, why doesn't that album when I crank it get all distorted and clip like DM? It sounds very clear and audible.

[- SKOM]

MagneticDeath, on 10/08/08 06:50 am, said:

I just took a look at the whole new Slipknot album through Audacity, the whole album is pretty much brcikwalled. However, why doesn't that album when I crank it get all distorted and clip like DM? It sounds very clear and audible.

Maybe because Greg can't even do the brickwalling right.

[redthahat]

True, both the new Slipknot and Trivium albums sound great! I'm going to try and get progressive screens of their older albums leading to their newer albums as well. Had a look at some meshuggah tracks as well, and as coud be imagined, they are brickwalled to the hilt, but that is how they are, so I would only post that up here for a laugh....

[MagneticDeath]

- SKOM, on 10/08/08 08:52 am, said:

Maybe because Greg can't even do the brickwalling right.

HAHA that's awesome. But It does sound good. I don't understand, it's a very clear album. What the fuck happened to DM. The waveforms on some of the songs are identical to some on DM. Yet they sound waaaaaaay better.

[redthahat]

MagneticDeath, on 10/08/08 11:54 pm, said:

HAHA that's awesome. But It does sound good. I don't understand, it's a very clear album. What the fuck happened to DM. The waveforms on some of the songs are identical to some on DM. Yet they sound waaaaaaay better.

If you have a look at the wave forms for both Trivium and Slipknot, if you could imagine, it is like they ave been turned up to 9.99, where (as a really dumbed down explaination) compression takes effect at 10.

With Death Magnetic, it has been cranked to 11, but compressed to 10. That is why it sounds so distorted, and clips all over the place. I'll post some DM tracks here soo enough as well.

(leaves open for correction)

[killiescot]

redthahat, on 10/08/08 02:00 am, said:

In the spirit of the whole Loudness War, thought that I would share a few screens of other examples of brickwalling, and others that havent, just to give people a further insight into what it is.


Arctic Monkeys - Brianstorm
http://i369.photobuc...sbrianstorm.jpg

Muse - Plug In Baby (not brickwalled)
http://i369.photobuc...epluginbaby.jpg

ACDC - Rock and Roll Train (Pretty prickwalled)
http://i369.photobuc...ndrolltrain.jpg


Slipknot - Germatria (brickwalled)
http://i369.photobuc...otgermatria.jpg


Trivium - Down From The Sky (brickwalled)
http://i369.photobuc...nfromthesky.jpg


Redthahat Remix of And Justice For All (loud, but not brickwalled)
http://i369.photobuc...atremixAJFA.jpg




If you have any other shots, feel free to share.
It is starting to seem that this forum is fast becoming the frontline of the Loudness War. Without going into the issues that Death Magnetic has, this can be a good place for us to discuss loudness in general. I'm going to take some more shots over the next few hours (all depending, I have a chest infection, and will pass out any minute), hoping to get some done for Meshuggah, Strapping Young Lad, Cannibal Corpse, and a few others like Radiohead, etc. Cheers

Well, I don't have the software, but try Vapor Trails, Magic, Icky Thump, Accelerate.....

[TheBlackCloudUpAhead]

I think its a) cos people on a message board havent started ranting on how it clips. Trust me, if I started shouting at you about it, you'd find it on those albums too.


I think it might be that...with dm, its been brickwalled, majorly compressed and the brickwalled again.

With the others, its just simply brickwalled.

[MatsP]

TheBlackCloudUpAhead, on 10/08/08 02:59 pm, said:

I think its a) cos people on a message board havent started ranting on how it clips. Trust me, if I started shouting at you about it, you'd find it on those albums too.


I think it might be that...with dm, its been brickwalled, majorly compressed and the brickwalled again.

With the others, its just simply brickwalled.

The problem is the sound level. It clips digitally.

[Horrorfreak]

I've gotten to the point where I don't even care anymore. After doing some research on the matter, I see that many of my favorite albums are apparent victims of the loudness war. I mean who would have thought that AFI - Sing the Sorrow was mastered too loud, that album sounds fucking fantastic. I'm just going to accept if for what it is, because it doesn't effect my enjoyment of an album at all apparently. I still have a hard time believing that AFIs last album Decemberunderground is supposed to have similar problems, the production on that album sounds excellent.

[MatsP]

Horrorfreak, on 10/08/08 03:01 pm, said:

I've gotten to the point where I don't even care anymore. After doing some research on the matter, I see that many of my favorite albums are apparent victims of the loudness war. I mean who would have thought that AFI - Sing the Sorrow was mastered too loud, that album sounds fucking fantastic. I'm just going to accept if for what it is, because it doesn't effect my enjoyment of an album at all apparently. I still have a hard time believing that AFIs last album Decemberunderground is supposed to have similar problems, the production on that album sounds excellent.

It's only too loud if it starts to clip. Anything below that is ok, even if over-compression is fatiguing to the ears.

[TheBlackCloudUpAhead]

Yeah I've noticed that many supposed "Victims" sound fine. It leads me to conclusion it isnt really the mastering at all...its just the retarded mixing. Fidelman.

[MatsP]

TheBlackCloudUpAhead, on 10/08/08 03:04 pm, said:

Yeah I've noticed that many supposed "Victims" sound fine. It leads me to conclusion it isnt really the mastering at all...its just the retarded mixing. Fidelman.

Yeah, I guess he's the one to blame. Maybe he's losing his hearing.

[MagneticDeath]

MatsP, on 10/08/08 09:02 am, said:

It's only too loud if it starts to clip. Anything below that is ok, even if over-compression is fatiguing to the ears.

Would you say that the Brickwalling is over compression? Because, the new Trivium and even Slipknot are not ear fatiguing as you put it.

[Heavymaskinen]

MagneticDeath, on 10/08/08 05:50 am, said:

I just took a look at the whole new Slipknot album through Audacity, the whole album is pretty much brcikwalled. However, why doesn't that album when I crank it get all distorted and clip like DM? It sounds very clear and audible.

Vol. 3 indeed appears brickwalled, but sounds much better than DM. However, when boosted by 6 Db, it's more or less the same. Which leads me to suspect a manual boost of the mix, e.g. with the master fader.

[MatsP]

MagneticDeath, on 10/08/08 03:11 pm, said:

Would you say that the Brickwalling is over compression? Because, the new Trivium and even Slipknot are not ear fatiguing as you put it.

I suppose Brickwalling is the syndrome where the waveform looks almost like a square. Compressed to hell all over. I would guess that Trivium and Slipknot are less compressed then, since you say you are ok with them.

[MagneticDeath]

MatsP, on 10/08/08 09:14 am, said:

I suppose brickwalling is the syndrome where the waveform looks almost like a square. Compressed to hell all over. I would guess that Trivium and Slipknot are less compressed then, since you say you are ok with them.

Nah, they are compressed as you put it. A solid brick of a waveform.

[MatsP]

MagneticDeath, on 10/08/08 03:15 pm, said:

Nah, they are compressed as you put it. A solid brick of a waveform.

Alright.

[MagneticDeath]

MatsP, on 10/08/08 09:16 am, said:

Alright.

But they sound way better than DM, they don't hurt the ears. I'm trying to figure out why almost identical waveform would have such a vast difference in sound.

[MatsP]

MagneticDeath, on 10/08/08 03:18 pm, said:

But they sound way better than DM, they don't hurt the ears. I'm trying to figure out why almost identical waveform would have such a vast difference in sound.

My guess is the exaggerated clipping on DM, causing lots of high-frequency emphasis, that probably doesn't exist on the other two.

This post has been edited by MatsP: Oct 08 08 - 06:19 AM

[MagneticDeath]

MatsP, on 10/08/08 09:19 am, said:

My guess is the exaggerated clipping on DM, causing lots of high-frequency emphasis, that probably doesn't exist on the other two.

I'm also wondering if has something to do with the basic recording process. Even the GH tracks are extremely loud. DM was recorded very loud. That may have actually made the difference here. If it is a recording issue, remixing and remastering may not help.

[MatsP]

MagneticDeath, on 10/08/08 03:22 pm, said:

I'm also wondering if has something to do with the basic recording process. Even the GH tracks are extremely loud. DM was recorded very loud. That may have actually made the difference here. If it is a recording issue, remixing and remastering may not help.

Yes, they are loud, but they don't clip, leading to a much more enjoyable listening experience. I don't have any real problems with the loudness, as long as it doesn't CLIP. It's the clipping of the retail CD that kills it all.