74 replies to this topic

[mrfloydpinkerton]

Just like it's dumb to think tuning down = heavy, it's also silly to think that tuning down = muddy, flubby tone.

In Flames uses a lot of C standard.

shit son, that is one great fucking tone they have going on there.

[Mastodude]

shit son, that is one great fucking tone they have going on there.

Also C standard.

[KAS]

shit son, that is one great fucking tone they have going on there.

Isn't it though?

[mrfloydpinkerton]

im so used to downtuned stuff only being like palm muted shit on the lowest string, its pretty refreshing to hear downtuned stuff sound good. i kind of dismissed it all as muddy sounding shit, but i definately take it back

[estang74]

It has that ring as you call it because regular guitars are built to produce best sound in E tuning, the standard tuning. I don' t want to get too theoretical and come off as elitist. But it has to do with that a standard E tuning ascends perfect fourths between all strings except for between G and B which is a majord Third. This is why the standard tuning for six-stringed guitars is E-A-D-G-B-E. To simplify it allows you to move in and between different keys in what is considered to be the easiest way. Also, because regular guitars aren't considered to be Bass instruments, it's more important to have the highest notes on the instrument that you can't reach if you tune it down. That's another reason.

Wouldn't the guitar still be in perfect 4th's and a major third between the 3rd and 2nd if you just tuned down to Eb? All the notes would just move down a half step correct?

[son of dismiss]

Wouldn't the guitar still be in perfect 4th's and a major third between the 3rd and 2nd if you just tuned down to Eb? All the notes would just move down a half step correct?

That's correct. Don't listen to the drummer for knowledge on relative pitch.

[The Metalhead]

Just like it's dumb to think tuning down = heavy, it's also silly to think that tuning down = muddy, flubby tone.

In Flames uses a lot of C standard.

It would also mean that 7-string guitars would suck. And I see your tight In Flames riffage, and raise you a Periphery: Icarus Lives

(Periphery also proves that you don't have to scoop your mids to sound super heavy, as they follow the Kerry King approach, by using a "frown" instead of "grin" shape on the EQ, which is much more evil. )

[son of dismiss]

It would also mean that 7-string guitars would suck. And I see your tight In Flames riffage, and raise you a Periphery: Icarus Lives

(Periphery also proves that you don't have to scoop your mids to sound super heavy, as they follow the Kerry King approach, by using a "frown" instead of "grin" shape on the EQ, which is much more evil. )

That ain't no C standard either. That's a low G#. Sound plenty tight and clear to me.

[Drain Bamage]

Wouldn't the guitar still be in perfect 4th's and a major third between the 3rd and 2nd if you just tuned down to Eb? All the notes would just move down a half step correct?

Thats correct, effectivley it just means that the guys can hit the same fret but produce a lower note, take the low E for example it becomes a semi-tone (half-step) lower, meaning that the E now becomes a Eb or D# as it can be called.

Edited by Drain Bamage, Dec 16 10 - 03:12 PM.

[dip4lyfe]

That has infinitely more to do with the way the guitars were EQ'd on those albums than it doesn with them being one semitone higher.

now come on dude if metallica made every album to resemble lightning/master/justice then they would be...... Slayer basically. It is thanks to the variation of Material in their Discography that Metallica is Metallica.

You can literally listen to Metallica all day. If you get tired of Master of Puppets, you can go to Load for some slower jams that are still hard. If you're tired of Metallica altogether, you can listen to Garage Inc for cover songs. If you want some more Metallica, you go back to the Black Album. If you're tired of that heaviness, you can go to S&M and listen to some unbelievable fusion of symphony & metal..

They are the best band in the world, because of what they have done all through out their career. Yes they defined Thrash, but they also stand head and shoulders over all other bands as the best rock band period no questions and that is thanks to albums like Black Album, Load/Reload, Garage, & S&M. and not just Justice/Master/LIghtning/KEA

[son of dismiss]

now come on dude if metallica made every album to resemble lightning/master/justice then they would be...... Slayer basically. It is thanks to the variation of Material in their Discography that Metallica is Metallica.

You can literally listen to Metallica all day. If you get tired of Master of Puppets, you can go to Load for some slower jams that are still hard. If you're tired of Metallica altogether, you can listen to Garage Inc for cover songs. If you want some more Metallica, you go back to the Black Album. If you're tired of that heaviness, you can go to S&M and listen to some unbelievable fusion of symphony & metal..

They are the best band in the world, because of what they have done all through out their career. Yes they defined Thrash, but they also stand head and shoulders over all other bands as the best rock band period no questions and that is thanks to albums like Black Album, Load/Reload, Garage, & S&M. and not just Justice/Master/LIghtning/KEA

Not a word of that had to do with the subject at hand.

[thews]

now come on dude if metallica made every album to resemble lightning/master/justice then they would be...... Slayer basically. It is thanks to the variation of Material in their Discography that Metallica is Metallica.

Of course, any fool knows that God Hates us All sounds exactly the same as Seasons in the Abyss.

[Neil Levin]

now come on dude if metallica made every album to resemble lightning/master/justice then they would be...... Slayer basically. It is thanks to the variation of Material in their Discography that Metallica is Metallica.

You can literally listen to Metallica all day. If you get tired of Master of Puppets, you can go to Load for some slower jams that are still hard. If you're tired of Metallica altogether, you can listen to Garage Inc for cover songs. If you want some more Metallica, you go back to the Black Album. If you're tired of that heaviness, you can go to S&M and listen to some unbelievable fusion of symphony & metal..

They are the best band in the world, because of what they have done all through out their career. Yes they defined Thrash, but they also stand head and shoulders over all other bands as the best rock band period no questions and that is thanks to albums like Black Album, Load/Reload, Garage, & S&M. and not just Justice/Master/LIghtning/KEA

Actually I'm pretty burnt out on Metallica. And I like most of their stuff (barring St. Anger).

And you're deluded if you think that those albums (TBA/Load/Reload/Garage/S&M) are nearly as influential as the KEA/Lightning/Puppets/Justice.

And Metallica aren't the greatest rock band of all time, but that is subjective.

[Fedryktulu]

Actually I'm pretty burnt out on Metallica. And I like most of their stuff (barring St. Anger).

And you're deluded if you think that those albums (TBA/Load/Reload/Garage/S&M) are nearly as influential as the KEA/Lightning/Puppets/Justice.

And Metallica aren't the greatest rock band of all time, but that is subjective.

I personally don't care if the albums are influential or not, that doesn't make me enjoy them more or less.

[malik]

[Justice Rider]

i think the moral of the story, is that whatever rick rubin says, do the exact opposite.

The moral of this story is.... DON'T TRUST THE SYSTEM!!! (aka: Rick Rubin and Co.)

Cookie to whoever gets the reference :)

[Justice Rider]

Actually I'm pretty burnt out on Metallica. And I like most of their stuff (barring St. Anger).

And you're deluded if you think that those albums (TBA/Load/Reload/Garage/S&M) are nearly as influential as the KEA/Lightning/Puppets/Justice.

And Metallica aren't the greatest rock band of all time, but that is subjective.

TBA was a huge influence After it almost every band tried to make an album similar to it Megadeth with Countdown, Testament with The Ritual, Anthrax with Sounds of white noise, exodus made one too ( don't recall the name) and many band to come were influenced by TBA like Trivium, Godsmack, Disturbed and many others. I'm sure they were influenced by also Kill - Justice but the influence of TBA can be heard in many bands music very clearly. Metallica showed they can make amazing album that wasn't Thrash it was a big deal to everyone. Don't downplay it's role in Metal history and Metallica history as well.

[Justice Rider]

That said Metallica have 5 classic albums, Kill, Ride, Master, Justice and yes TBA! I think regardless if Metallica chose to make another Thrash album or another TBA or the Loads next they will not be regarded as Classic Metallica albums anymore cause that just happens to any band, like Slayer they made the same tiype of albums but the last classic Slayer album is Seasons in the Abyss. Also Beatles and Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath (Ozzy years) after the first 4-5 maybe 6 albums it became not classic any more. And that is normal to any band.

I think Metallica realized that so they explored a different side to their music (Load/Reload) a different musical influence more Led Zeppelin than Motörhead, type of change. They didn't want to become stale and boring. And their heart told them to experiment. If they wanted to write Load but came out with a Thrash album it might have sucked big time cause thats not what they were feeling at the time. And besides Cliff would have loved doing those albums they feel almost like a tribute to him and the music he loved the most, soft rock/blues but with the Metallica style. I know there is an interview with Cliff that said that e hopes one day him and Metallica will write music like that in the future, too bad he wasn't with them than. RIP Cliff Burton.

Edited by Justice Rider, Feb 02 12 - 09:14 AM.

[wherever i may rock]

I always thought their metal songs were in E standard because of their large punk rock influences?

[Justice Rider]

I always thought their metal songs were in E standard because of their large punk rock influences?

I think they just chose it for no particular reason, but they must like the sound but they did switch to Eb and drop C so they must like a bunch of tuning.

[Moonloop]

I always thought their metal songs were in E standard because of their large punk rock influences?

[johnnybloggo]

Most of their songs are in E standard is because it's, y'know...standard.

You don't choose it, it chooses you.

30+ years ago it wasn't like everyone was messing around in drop C or playing the brootalz on 7 string guitars. You bought a shitty-ass guitar, it was tuned already, you bought a tuner or pitch pipes and tried to figure out what was going on. When you broke your first string (and after you finished crying because you thought it was a biggger deal than it is) you had to figure out what it was you were supposed to be replacing and how to tune it up to whatever seemed to be the standard. You were also, almost certainly, playing and learning riffs and songs from other groups, which were all pretty much in e standard too.

[Ackburn]

guitars muddy as you go down? yes if you haven't a clue, on the other hand machinehead do fine in drop B or whatever the hell they do it in nowadays, and it aint that muddy either.

Metallica should duck it into D tuning, much easier on hetfield.

[Mean Man]

The moral of this story is.... DON'T TRUST THE SYSTEM!!! (aka: Rick Rubin and Co.)

Cookie to whoever gets the reference :)

Man, what do I look like, a charity case? I'll take your cookie and throw it on the ground!

[Justice Rider]

Man, what do I look like, a charity case? I'll take your cookie and throw it on the ground!

Hahah! Happy Birthday to the GROUND!!!! Man!!!

(I posted that like month ago! I couldn't help but post it at the time it seemed so fiting lol. Thanks for the response)